Curse

Akolo · Feb 02, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melandrus Torment

That doesn't mean that in the hands of competent players Cry of Pain would not just be replaced by a different skill instead. I mean good teams were killing Voltaic Spear Farming with Nukers before they moved onto Cry of Pain spiking and still pulling in good times, so nerfing Cry of Pain won't make much difference, people will just move onto another way of finishing a farm. At least using Cry of Pain takes good co-ordination to use effectively compared to Ursan, while allowing more proffessions to participate freely, and in my opinion Ray of Judgment is a far more powerful spell.

On one hand I can see what you are arguing for, and to some degree I can agree with it, but on the other hand it's PvE so there's no point in even trying to bring skill into the equasion when PvE takes very little skill, when compared to PvP, in the first place, only experience of the area you're venturing into and good forward preparation.

PvE is meant to be fun, instead of trying to dictate how everyone else should have fun, just try and find your own way to have fun. If you want to play a way that makes you more skillfull at PvE, do so. No one really cares how good you are or are not at PvE, quite simply because it's PvE.

Agreed totally.

oh and anyone suggesting that echo+arcane echo+cop is the way to go in cryway, have no real experience in it

Athrun Feya · Feb 02, 2009, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

While I don't really give two shits about the issue at hand, a game needs areas that give a sense of achievement for completion. This means that certain areas should be sufficiently difficult and require some semblance of thought to complete in order to reward players with a feeling of accomplishment, rather than just being a means to farm items or titles

The game is aging, these Elite missions have been run by people on a pretty much daily basis since release. It would be rather worrying if these players hadn't improved, hadn't found new tactics or more useful builds. Through progress, idea of elite areas has moved away from just a build to complete to a build to complete it in the fastest possible time. Experienced guilds who do speed clears do it because they get that sense of achievement from being possibly the fastest clear ever. Unfortunately, people seem to see these records and think its the norm.

Ever wondered what goes into a speed clear (other than UW)? Tactics are mainly around skipping groups (which is why a hit to shadow form would have more effect), skipping chests, not picking up drops, splits, co-ordination, etc. Cry of Pain is just another tool in these runs.

Also, it's nice saying CoP isn't replacable, but we already proved it was (read my last but one post).

Lourens · Feb 02, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athrun Feya

Ever wondered what goes into a speed clear (other than UW)? Tactics are mainly around skipping groups (which is why a hit to shadow form would have more effect), skipping chests, not picking up drops, splits, co-ordination, etc. Cry of Pain is just another tool in these runs.

Yes thats what i tought , i really like [shadow of haste][dash] to lure groups the other way so you can avoid them

ne33us · Feb 02, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

Well, it's quite sad to see all "elite" areas being crowded by gimmick 123 builds again... Ursan anyone?

I totally agree.
Elite areas are for the elite/hardcore players and the rest of the crowd should stay at the rest of the PvE areas. After all there is plenty of content out there.
No offense to the gimmick-players, but, they just don't try enough to deserve to get into elite areas. It's not my fault.
They should only try the elite areas when they are ready to play the way elite players play the game. And that's the only way to play the elite areas, and that's final.

And indeed, the success rate of PUGs in elite areas is aoutragous.
Those areas has become unreasonable easy and it's at the verge of becoming totally trivial.

Nerfing the suggested skills will really fade those gimmicks back to their usual PvE activities, where they belong, once more. Go Nerf Anet !

Oh and some last minute rumors that came by.
Rumors has it that the unspeakable employee of Anet that introduced Ursan Blessing in the game and continuesly delayed it's obvious needed to nerf, has be banished to (who could I insult safely? none I suppose.) Zimbabwe, programming monkey (gimmick) intelligent test games.

Athrun Feya · Feb 02, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ne33us

ramble...

Is this a joke or are you just extremely pretentious?

Ursan was one of the, lets say, selling points of EotN for casuals unsure about getting the expansion. No wonder it was not in Anets immediate interests to nerf it.

Hailey Anne · Feb 02, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Im getting tired of all the posts saying how skills like CoP is hurting the game.
Hate to break it to you but skills like this are the only thing keeping it together(somewhat). If it wasnt for the PvE skills and the gimmick builds people would just stick to H/H. H/H are smarter than most of the players out there, the only reason to even attempt a pug is these builds. So atleast with the gimmick builds and op skills people still group with one another. Leave it alone, if you don't like the skill don't use it plain and simple.

MisterT69 · Feb 02, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ne33us

I totally agree.

Nerfing the suggested skills will really fade those gimmicks back to their usual PvE activities, where they belong, once more. Go Nerf Anet !

Yeah but what you're proposing will also turn the areas (DoA for example) into what they were after the ursan nerf...barren of civilized people.

Tyla · Feb 03, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

The reason DoA was like that is because the material reward wasn't worth the effort to the people playing DoA without Tank'n'Spank or Ursan methods. The way to bring up population? Bigger reward over stronger skills.

Unreal Havoc · Feb 03, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ne33us

No offense to the gimmick-players, but, they just don't try enough to deserve to get into elite areas. It's not my fault.
They should only try the elite areas when they are ready to play the way elite players play the game. And that's the only way to play the elite areas, and that's final.

Alot of players using the "gimmick builds" are established players who have good experience in the elite areas they're using them. They use them because it is faster and easier, not because they are inexperienced and don't know how to play Guild Wars. You don't just clear an area ahead of you if you have no idea what to do, that's just laughable. As for those who wish to have a go, fair play to them, why stop them from learning how to clear? Sure you get the odd player who is just clueless, but still...

If anything you should thank the "gimmick builds" in a way because at least the inexperienced players who wish to try there hand at a clear will manage to grasp what the area is like ahead of them so that they know what to expect when they go into said area with a different team build. Ursan was a great asset to this. Why? Because of instead of a player taking months and months attempting to clear and understand how a FoW clear should be done, they could learn the run in weeks and now at least know what to do in a standard team setup. Then slowly as they build confidence they can start trying more adventurous ways of completing said area. Knowledge is power.

They're not affecting your game by playing the way they want to. You will play the way you want to regardless and if it makes you feel so superior all power to you, most people really don't give a shit.

draxynnic · Feb 03, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

[Energy surge][Shatter Hex][Mistrust][Clumsiness][Wandering Eye][cry of frustration][tease][epidemic] So here are the non pve AoE mesmer skills, if CoP gets nerfed go QQ elsewhere thanks

If you're trying to list all the skills that Mesmer have that could possibly be called AoE, you missed a few.

You also missed the point. Even with CoP, Mesmers only started becoming vaguely accepted recently. The likes of the new Visions of Regret might save them even with a nerfed CoP, but showing a list of skills that happen to affect multiple targets (come on! Epidemic? Tease? I love them both, but I wouldn't call either of them nukes any more than I would Air of Disenchantment) doesn't change the frustration that stems from Mesmers being one of the professions that has historically been hardest to get a group for.

Ideally, of course, CoP should encourage bringing one, maybe two Mesmers as part of a balanced group instead of running cryway, which is why I support making it eat the feeder hex used. Any adjustment, however, should be aimed at breaking the synergy without weakening it too much when used by a single character.

Improvavel · Feb 03, 2009, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ne33us

I totally agree.
Elite areas are for the elite/hardcore players and the rest of the crowd should stay at the rest of the PvE areas. After all there is plenty of content out there.
No offense to the gimmick-players, but, they just don't try enough to deserve to get into elite areas. It's not my fault.
They should only try the elite areas when they are ready to play the way elite players play the game. And that's the only way to play the elite areas, and that's final.

And indeed, the success rate of PUGs in elite areas is aoutragous.
Those areas has become unreasonable easy and it's at the verge of becoming totally trivial.

Nice trolling

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

If you're trying to list all the skills that Mesmer have that could possibly be called AoE, you missed a few.

You also forget one of the most dominating skills - [[Extend Conditions] (its aoe now). [[Extend Conditions]+[[Broad head arrow]+[[you move like a dwarf]+[[ash blast] is a nice way to keep a mob crippled, blinded and dazed.

Hanging Man · Feb 03, 2009, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

[Energy surge][Shatter Hex][Mistrust][Clumsiness][Wandering Eye][cry of frustration][tease][epidemic] So here are the non pve AoE mesmer skills, if CoP gets nerfed go QQ elsewhere thanks

these so called "AoE" skills don't come close to CoP. Cop is mesmers shining light for Pve. DoA,urgoz, deep, and the like are finally open for my mesmer. Without i don't think there would be a chance.

And besides I just want my damn torment shield already

draxynnic · Feb 03, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

You also forget one of the most dominating skills - [[Extend Conditions] (its aoe now). [[Extend Conditions]+[[Broad head arrow]+[[you move like a dwarf]+[[ash blast] is a nice way to keep a mob crippled, blinded and dazed.

There's also Hex Eater Vortex, Fevered Dreams, Mirror of Disenchantment...

There are plenty of Mesmer skills that affect multiple targets. The point I was trying to make is that they're typically intended for utility rather than damage and, thus, serve a very different role to CoP. With the exceptions of Energy Surge, Wandering Eye and Clumsiness (and for the last it's debatable), I'd argue that in each of the examples Lourens listed, the actual damage is a secondary effect, while for CoP the reverse is obviously true

Lourens · Feb 03, 2009, 09:59 AM // 09:59

You can always go Me/Rt with [Splinter weapon][arcane echo][spirit rift] something like that is also effective

[QOUTE=OP]You also forget one of the most dominating skills - [[Extend Conditions] (its aoe now). [[Extend Conditions]+[[Broad head arrow]+[[you move like a dwarf]+[[ash blast] is a nice way to keep a mob crippled, blinded and dazed.[/QUOTE]

Your stealing [[extend conditions] with [[arcane mimicry] ?

Kattar · Feb 03, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Alrighty, this is getting a little out of hand, and nowhere near what we started with.

Closed.